CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI
PART 32
(continued from the previous issue)

Peace On Earth

SAI: Crime has become very bad in India. There is no safety.

H (Hislop): Swami, this is not particular to India. The same is true all over the world. How will it all end?

SAI: To the good. In a few years, all will be peaceful.

H: But Swami, it is getting worse, and it is the Kali Yuga (a world period of diminishing virtue).

SAI: No, it is not as bad now as it was. It is like in the ocean. There is a time of high waves, and there may be some peak waves that crash heavily on the shore, but this is followed by a calm and peaceful sea.

H: Many people are saying that, very shortly, we will enter a period of great catastrophe.

SAI: There may be some peak waves, as I mentioned but the world will be happy, peaceful, and prosperous.

Guest: No world war?

SAI: No, no world war.

H: We are fortunate to be alive so that we may see this peaceful world.

SAI: You will all see it. Even old men will live to see it.

Guest: Then Prema Sai will not have much work to do! Swami will have made the world peaceful.

SAI: That is some forty years away (this conversation took place in December 1978). At that time the world will be peaceful. That is the Name: Prema Sai. All will be love - love, love, love everywhere.

Guest: It would be good to be reborn in the time of Prema Sai!

SAI: It is best to merge with God. No rebirth.

SAI: In all countries there is a rapid deterioration of the human quality.

H: When will it change for the better?

SAI: Soon there will be a change.

H: When is soon, Swami? Twenty years? Ten years?

SAI: No, now. Already there is some slight improvement in India. One cause of the general deterioration in the world is rapid communication. This allows advertising and publicity to have a strong influence on people. Your American election is an illustration of how the leaders are television actors.

H: Swami, there is no evidence of a change for the better.

SAI: If there is a change, it will be a universal change not local. It will occur at every place.

H: This rapid world-wide communication also results in common knowledge of how to build an atom bomb. Is there not a great danger of some small nation using the bomb?

SAI: The danger is not of someone using the bomb. People are no longer afraid of death from the bomb. So long as they can pursue their objective of getting money, they are willing to risk death and to die. It is not the bomb that is the danger, it is the mind that is the danger. The bomb exists only as an instrument of the mind. The need is for a change of mind.

H: But Swami, people do not care to learn about that. They have no interest in Swami or in listening to Him.

SAI: Minds can and do change. For example, the lifestyle of people can be so bad that they become ashamed and change. The hippies' life style is so low and so dishonest and immoral that groups of hippies, observing their own life reflected in another group, become ashamed and of themselves they change.

H: Well, at least Swami's devotees know about changing the mind and can do so.

SAI: Were it not for the mind change of Sai devotees the world would already have fallen into complete chaos. The deterioration of mind and man has been very rapid and abrupt, even precipitous during the last fifteen years. That the world is not in total destruction is due to the change in mind of Sai devotees and to Sai's Grace. You are not aware of it, just as you are not aware of your eyes until they are lost. In the same way, the world is not aware of Sai's Grace.

Swami Talks with Jewish Devotees

A request was made to Baba that He deliver a discourse directly to the Jewish people; a unique, ancient and powerful minority in the society of the world. The occasion for a major discourse was not at hand, but Baba graciously called all the Jewish devotees presently in the ashram for an interview, and included a few additional persons, of whom I was one, fortunately indeed for me. Unhappily, I was unable to keep up with the rapid exchange of questions and answers and could not remember afterwards, largely, I think, because of my unfamiliarity with the subject matter. I did manage to take a few notes and believe it worthwhile to make them a part of the book. Prior to the questions and answers, Baba made a few comments:

SAI: The great scriptures of mankind came into being through sound, the word of God. This is fully true of the ancient Jewish religion. It was the word of God. Over the centuries, however, man has made changes in the Bible, and present misunderstandings are due to these man-made changes. In the early days there were differences between the Jews and the Christians, but they are not appropriate today.

Today the standard should be the brotherhood of man, based on the divine love of God for all mankind. Each religion should follow that which is its own and not follow a path which belongs to others, but which is not its own. Follow your own tradition, but do not hate others. Be broadminded, as are the followers of Sai.

The Bible, the Koran, the Vedas, the Granth - all represent the same creation. All were following the voice of God. All arose from the whisper of God which, in the pure minds of the hearers, flowered into eight sounds, eight letters, and from this, all words evolved. The eight sounds were the vowels and consonants of language. The foundation of the Jewish religion is precisely the same as that of the Vedas. The breath of God, cognized by the pure attention of the ancient seers, was heard as eight sounds, and these sounds have been given names. (Baba here pronounced each of these eight primeval sounds, but I could not write them down.)

The Sai symbol of five religions represents the five major religions found in India. For the West, the Jewish Star may be added as a sixth representation on the Sai symbol.

Q: Was Jesus the Messiah of the Jews?

SAI: No. He did not represent the ancient Jewish tradition. He represented the factor of change.

Q: In the Bible it says that the Jews are God's chosen people.

SAI: All people were created by God. Thus all are His chosen people.

Q: What is the significance of Hitler?

SAI: Hitler's actions were activated by ego and power.

Q: For what reason have the Jews been persecuted?

SAI: For every event there is a cause. There is no reason. Sai acts only for love, for the benefit of others. He has no desires. He has no selfish interest.

Q: God appeared to the Jews as a burning bush.

SAI: God appears in any form. It is according to His wish, not because of any necessity or limitation. It is His choice. God is formless. He is Sound. He can take any form according to His wish.

Q: Is Sai the Messiah of the Jews?

SAI: That is not for Sai to say. That must be determined by you. The real Messiah is the totality of good. Sai is not any particular thing. He is everything.

Swami Directs the Finding of Sweet Water

SAI: (to devotee driver) To the Gokulum.

SAI: This area is now very busy. The College is here, and now there are the fields to the left. There are 60 acres, and there is the land on the college side also.

H: Are the lands irrigated?

SAI: All is under irrigation.

H: Where does the water come from?

SAI: We have dug wells. They produce a large volume of water.

H: Is the water good? Is it fit to drink?

SAI: It is good, sweet water.

H: How deep are the wells?

SAI: Fifteen to twenty feet deep.

H: But Swami, that is very shallow. Usually wells need to go beneath the surface water table in order to be sweet.

SAI: But Swami located where to dig.

H: Well, that is different!

SAI: The Government experts came to locate wells, but even though they went down 100 feet no water was found.

The Preciousness of Sai

H: Swamiji! I cannot understand how the Government does not come to Swami, touch His Feet and ask Him to run the country!

SAI: It is not that the Government is unaware of what Swami is doing. They do not think it would be good for Swami to be involved in politics. Nor does Swami wish that. His interest is with His devotees and with what He is now doing. If the Government should really know Swami's Reality and His power, they would declare Him to be a ward of the Government, surround Him with security and He would be unable to continue to see the devotees. It is not Swami's wish. With a move of His hand, Swami could have the entire world acknowledge Him - but to what end? It would be spectacular only and would accomplish nothing of value.

MG: When will the whole world know about Swami?

SAI: Even now Sai is known in many countries of the world. This is entirely without precedent. Never before have so many known of the Avathar. In the time of Rama, He was known only in the city-state where He lived. And He was naturally venerated there because he was the ruler. Knowledge about Krishna was also very limited. In His earlier days, Krishna was known only in two small villages.

H: Is the difference due to changes in communication, or to the will of the Avathar?

SAI: Rapid communication and transportation are largely responsible. In olden days to move from Puttaparthi to Whitefield (i.e. about 120 miles) would be like a trip to a foreign continent. Now, Americans come here from the other side of the world in just a few hours time.

MG: Will the University be here?

SAI: No. In Puttaparthi only. This college and others will remain as colleges.

H: Swami, may Mr. Kasturi publish Swami's talk to the Jews?

SAI: Why? I said words which were just heart-to-heart.

H: Is there enough milk from the Gokulum to provide the college?

SAI: Oh, yes. Enough also for the canteens and the residents in the compound. Some of the cows provide as much as 32 liters of milk a day.

H: How about the two cows at Prasanthi Nilayam? Are they still good?

SAI: Yes. The two from you and Mrs. Hislop still give more than 30 liters of milk a day. Now they have had five calves each. Very good cows.

Overuse of Computers Harms the Intellect

MG: Will the new university use computers?

SAI: No. No computers. The National Exams were put on computers. It was a disaster. The many errors caused severe distress. Some students committed suicide. Afterwards, when the parents were told that the deceased students had really made high passing grades, much suffering resulted. The growing tendency to rely on computers and calculators to provide answers to problems is bringing about a rapid deterioration of intellect. In times past, people had to use their brains to think long and hard on problems. Now, the mental work is handed over to a computer and the mental faculties deteriorate through disuse.

MG: But is it not possible to use computers in a constructive and beneficial way?

SAI: Yes, this is going on. There is the intention to use them in ways that are beneficial and constructive. The immediate results appear to be very good. But in the long run the use of computers and calculators will result in a severe deterioration of human intellectual power.

H: Swamiji, a personal question, please. Is December 9 the correct day for our departure, or would another date be better?

SAI: December 9 is the correct day. It is a good day.

H: Dr. S. wants to publish Swami's Christmas day talks.

SAI: Go ahead. He may do that.

H: The translations are those that Mr. Kasturi once showed to Swami. I carefully read every word.

SAI: It is all right.

MG: Swami, on Wednesday the Jewish festival of lights starts and continues for 8 days. Could the Jewish devotees have the lights burning here at Brindavan?

SAI: Oh, yes. They may do so.

MG: Where, Swami?

SAI: Under the central tree in the compound.

MG: Would Swami light the first lamp in the evening?

SAI: Yes, yes, I will do that.

(To be continued...)

– Heart2Heart Team