CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI
part 37

(Continued from the previous issue)

God is the Doer

H (Hislop): Swami, I have two questions important for our work in daily life, and in preparation for the Symposium in Rome. In His Discourses, Swami says that God should be recognized as the Doer of all actions and that we should not take it upon ourselves to be the doer. Further, Swami also says that instead of depending on limited human strength, we should call upon the strength of God. Since Swami says these two things in his Discourses, then the instructions must be intended for everybody?

SAI: Take the viewpoint that God is working through you.

H: What does that mean, Swami? How does that apply in the actual actions taking place each day?

SAI: You think you are engaging in the action, but it is your body doing so, or your mind, or your intelligence. But God is working through them. It is only the Atma in you which is the source of action. The Atma is God.

H: Then, instead of considering that it is myself acting, I should tell myself-and appreciate-that "I" am just a word, and that all these actions and movements going on are not coming from "Hislop" but are actually God Himself acting?

SAI: God is using your intelligence, mind, and body as His instruments for doing that particular work. You write with a pen, or cut paper with scissors - but it is not those instruments that are doing the work, it is you who are using the instruments for the purpose of doing the work. Likewise, the instruments you call "yourself” - intelligence, mind, and body - are used by God for His purpose.

H: Is that a practical thing to do, hour in and hour out? Tell myself that my mind and body, at any and every moment, are at that moment being used by God as His instrument? Is that a practical way to live and move through the day?

SAI: Yes. That is the fact, and it is practical.

H: But Swami! Then it is God doing evil!

SAI: At first, maybe (i.e. apparently), but then not. It is not God who does evil. Evil is from the ego.

H: When I die....

SAI: (interrupting) Who are you? You do not die! The body is like clothes - off and on.

H: Then after the body dies, I take another? Why?

SAI: Balance of desires. Desires are like seeds - they sprout. These desires cause rebirth. Finish with desires - no more birth. Mind is a desire bundle.

H: But this creation - world, body, and mind - is it a projection of the Atma? Are mind, body, intelligence creations or projections of the Atma?

SAI: Creation is from the Atma. The Atma, God, is the positive. Body is the negative. They join and action results. Otherwise, nothing.

H: There is the Atma, and then creation as the projection from the Atma.

SAI: No! That is where the mistake is made! Creation is not a projection from the Atma; the Atma, God, is permeating every fibre of the creation. The form is just appearance....It is energy, God, the Divine Energy which causes the form and which is the actuality of the form.

The Unlimited Divine

H: To do all these tasks, Swami, takes a lot of energy. Human energy is low, and Swami says to call on the Divine Energy. How?

SAI: Yes, human energy is low and the Divine Energy is without limit! You are God!

H: Does Swami mean that when the human energy limit is felt, that I should reject it as false, and instead identify myself as God, as He who is limitless energy?

SAI: Yes. Reject it! Look at your shadow - you are sitting and your shadow is there. When you stand up, your shadow also grows. Your shadow is the human energy. You are the Divine Energy. When you rise, and also do the Divine work, your energy grows.

H: Swami, the Divine Energy versus limited human energy.

SAI: There is only Divine Energy.

H: But what seems to me to be my human energy does not seem to be sufficient; for example, the trip to Central America.

SAI: All is God. Know that it is He who is Energy. Then all is well.

H: Oh! When the human energy slows, leave it and know that the truth is Divine Energy! Like when some years ago on long drives, Baba would look a little tired; and then, instantly, he would be fresh like a flower.

SAI: Do not equate this body with human bodies. It is only the appearance of a form for the sake of the devotees. There is nothing of Swami except for His devotees. There are no desires. This body is just an appearance of form....There is matter. There is humanness. There is Divinity. Matter is selfishness; humanness is selfishness plus some kindness; God has no selfishness, just total love. As the base, selfishness is essential for health and prosperity. Without health, what can be done? Work for these must be done; then help others; then God only.

H: But Swami, even in that worldly work of necessary "selfishness", where is "I"? Surely it is only God who is doing work?

SAI: That is better. That is the best way. You are only an instrument for Swami, an instrument which Swami is using for His purpose – you, U.S. Chairman, speaking of Swami's teachings and so on.

Unlocking Divinity Within

SAI: What is Being?

Q: It is "Sat".

SAI: That is just a Sanskrit word. Being means immortality.

Q: How to feel that Divine Love in the heart?

SAI: Your love, my love, they are the same. There is only one and He is God.

Q: Do you mean we should affirm that, that we should always say it?

SAI: Here is humanity (pointing to a line in the wall denoting a layer of bricks). Below is the world, above is God. Aim up, not down. You are God. There is only One. For so many lives you have been declaring that you are human, with limitations, "I am faulty....I am...so and so. "That is wrong. Now say, "I am God". Never feel or say that you are other than God. You will show Godly qualities. You will have Godly powers. You will be God. If there are no thoughts, there are no actions. How is your health, Hislop?

H: It is very good, Swami.

(During the group portion of this interview, a lady with a dull colored bracelet on her arm, showed her wrist in front of Baba and asked Him to change the bracelet into something pretty. It seemed to me that Baba was not pleased with the demand, but nevertheless he removed the bracelet, held it with two fingers, blew His breath upon it, and it became a new shining gold bracelet of an entirely different pattern and configuration. At this point, the group portion of the interview ended and Swami began the series of private conversations in the inner interview room).

(To be continued...)

– Heart2Heart Team