Hislop: Swami says that "All
is done by the Lord and not by you". But, the world over, there
is the concept that man is responsible for his own actions.
SAI: You are God. As
long as you are being human, there may be such thoughts.
H: As long as you are being human, does that imply
the human state is an act of one's will?
Not an act of will. Just a matter of being confused. It is
a delusion. You come here with doubts. Swami knows that, so he gives
you a chance to ask. If a Jnani comes, a man with direct experience
of the divine, Swami does not ask him what his doubts are. The fact
that you have questions is evidence that you are on the worldly level.
Baba's teaching will vary according to the level of the person.
A teacher in a school may at the same time be a renowned Vedic scholar,
but when teaching a child to read, he can only say, "This letter
is 'A' this letter is T" and so on. Mother may feed one child
at the breast, give soft food to another, tell the cook to serve food
to another, and tell the eldest to serve himself. But though her treatment
of each child may be different, her love is equal for all.
There are four different stages in which man finds himself, and God
gives different but appropriate help to each: first are those persons
who are in distress; second are those desiring prosperity; third are
those engaged in enquiry as to what is truth; and fourth are the wise.
At present in you, there is a mixture of conscious and sub-conscious.
For this reason there is confusion and doubt. In the unconscious state
there are no impressions. In the super-conscious state there is no
doubt, there is decision; in this state there is no body and no mind,
although there may be visions. There is still another state beyond
the super-conscious. This is Divine consciousness where God alone
is. In the super-conscious state there is still a very slight tinge
of duality, of giver and receiver. In the ordinary state there are
the three: giver, gift and receiver. In divine consciousness there
is the giver only.
Really, all other than the One is false. Even Sadhana. Here a doubt
may arise: how can Sadhana, something false, result in something other
than false? It is like this: dreaming is unreal, but the dream may
become so strong, so terrifying, that because of the dream one awakens.
It is likewise with Sadhana. For Sadhana to become so strong that
from it one awakens to reality, the Sadhana must touch the super-conscious
level where both body and mind are transcended. It is from the deep
transcendent state that Truth blazes forth.
One hears about various paths to Self-realization. What does this
SAI: There are three
paths. There is that of devotion; the Guru guides and all is left
to the Guru to perform. Then, there is the perception that God is
Omnipresent; the future comes up to the present and the past falls
away from the present. God is omnipresent; so the present is God;
this is knowledge. Then there is surrender to God. But surrender does
not mean just doing all actions in His Name. Surrender to God is when
the entire Universe is known as His body. Surrender is when doer,
deed and object are all God. It cannot be forced. It comes naturally.
Faith is the foundation; surrender is the peak.
H: Of the many 'roads' to self-realization, what
is the short
The short cut is this way: the Name of God is the seed; love
is the water by which the crop grows; discipline is the fence which
protects the growing crop; the field in which the crop is grown is
the spiritual heart; the crop when it comes to harvest, is Bliss.
H: Why should one attempt to gain Self-realization
when one is always Self-realized?
SAI: As of now, there
is a mixture in the mind of sensory identification. The mind is not
H: Swami, time is needed for the plane to arrive
in India, but why is time needed for Self-realization? Is not an immediate
awakening possible, entirely apart from time?
SAI: Immediate awakening
apart from time? Yes, it is possible. If faith is full and perfect,
then Grace comes fully at that very moment, just as the sound and
the bullet occur at the same moment.
H: But, Swami, one believes that he does have full
faith. Therefore, there must be self-deception?
SAI: As long as one thinks
he has faith, he does not. Just as when one knows that he is meditating,
he is not meditating. Only when meditation is automatic, all day long,
there is meditation. Full faith is reached by Sadhana, just as Bombay
is reached by approaching it.
H: Sadhana, as it is described, seems wrong, because
it is a conscious effort aimed at getting a reward. It seems to me
that Sadhana is real only when it is spontaneous. That is, when one
naturally loves God, then he cannot help but love God, and he cannot
help but make inquiry.
SAI: It is as you say,
but you have not experienced that spontaneous love of God. It is still
just an idea. You have a conviction that love of God exists naturally
in you. That conviction is the result of many lives of spiritual practice.
A Visitor: What is the correct Sadhana for retired
SAI: Meditation morning
and evening. Spend days in good work.
A Visitor: What is the Sadhana appropriate to ladies?
SAI: Ladies have the
duty of house, children and husband. They are very busy. Meditation
morning and evening can be done. During the day, all work that previously
was done for others should now be done as worship of God. That is
the best Sadhana for ladies.