CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI
PART 33
(continued from the previous issue)

The Purity of Sai   H (Hislop): I have asked important persons around Sai if Sai is all- knowing at all times, or only when He so chooses. They give different answers. SAI: Sai knows everything. That people are in doubt due to the Maya of the Avathar. You know that Sai is in your heart, yet you think, "Is Sai upstairs in His room, or is He elsewhere?" It is the human element. The body has the name of Hislop, but you are not the body. You are the Atma (spirit). There is no desire in Sai. There is total purity only. This entire body is Amrith (nectar). Where is there space for desire in Sai? Everything is already mine. Sai does not think. My will is immediately realized. Whatever it may be, it instantly appears; an envelope, gold, everything. Where is there room for desire? I have no thought. If I think, it is for you, it is not for Me. Sai requires no food. If I eat, it is for the benefit of everyone. If I give Darshan, it is not for Me, it is for others. I am talking to you now - it is for you, not for Me. A point does not appear in Sai. First a point, then disappoint! I am always the same. I am love, always love. If there are angry words, that is action. Inwardly, I remain the same. I have the same tender love for that person.

H: Swami, some tragedy happens to a person, and they try to find a reason for it in the actions of this lifetime.

SAI: Yes, that can be.

H: But I thought that all that happens in this life is the result of our behaviour in past existences.

SAI: Not always. Something could happen with its cause in this life.  

The Goal is to Realise Our Divinity

H: Swami, please restate or redefine the goal, the objective of the American Sathya Sai Organization.

SAI: It is not just the American, it is the objective for the worldwide Sathya Sai Organizations. People, the world over, do not know they are Divine. They do not even realize what it is to be human. They have ego, anger, greed, envy, lust, hatred. These are not human qualities; they are animal qualities. Unless Sai devotees are, at the very least, human persons free of animal qualities or characteristics, how can such devotees suggest spiritual life to others? Such suggestions will have no impact, if devotees in general are not yet free of animal characteristics. There should be in each Sathya Sai Baba Center two or three members who live a life as true human beings The individual does not progress alone. He is not separate from Society, and he must do his bit to uplift the society. Therefore, the individual's work to free himself from animal characteristics and to live a spiritual life is not done for himself, but is done for all of God's creatures. The work of freeing the individual's nature from animal qualities is done, in love, for God, and done in His Name and with His help.

Each member of the Sathya Sai Baba Center should work very hard to purify the quality of his life, and the goal should be to lead a perfect life, an ideal life; to be an ideal exemplar of the divine teachings of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.

The world will respond to the ideal life of a Sai devotee. The world is yearning for the ideal life and will, of its own accord, adopt such a life if it comes into view. They will respond, and they will follow such a life.

H: Swami, does that mean that our Centers should now move beyond the task of working with Center members and tackle the world?

SAI: The Center members must carefully work to become truly human before they venture to instruct the world.  

SAI: How do you like the pictures? (i.e. portrait photographs for the college building to be dedicated on the 23rd).

Robert Bozzani (RB): We were afraid they were too large.

SAI: They are not too large. Swami’s picture will be the same size. Do you like the pictures?

H: Bozzani looks like a movie star!  

SAI: No, no. He is smiling, whereas Mrs. Bozzani is more serious. Come, sit down.  

Evolution to the Human

SAI: At the center everything is liquid.

RB: Does Swami mean the world?

SAI: Yes, everything is melted. No temperature.

RB: No heat, Swami?  

SAI: No temperature. Everything is liquid. Like water, gGold, iron, silver, gems, all are liquid. Next there is solid. Then trees. H: Trees, Swami? Trees like we see around us?   SAI: Yes, trees. Then human beings and animals. At the very center is the Divine. It is the support of everything. First is liquid, chemistry. Then solid, physics. Then trees, botany. Then man, the pinnacle of life. But at the center, supporting all, is the Divine. Without the Divine, where is chemistry, physics, botany? This will be the teaching of all courses at the University. The students will understand the full picture. H: In this picture, Swami, where do the devas and demigods and other creatures of the cosmos fit in? SAI: They are above the senses. Man is below the senses. Those others are above the senses.

H: But all must come to be humans in order to merge with God, is it not so?

SAI: Not totally so. There is love.

H: Then, can man take a further step and go into the world above the senses.  

SAI: That is possible.

H: But is it not possible to realize the Self, or merge with God, while in the human state?

SAI: Oh, yes. That can be done.

H: Does Swami mean that both possibilities exist, that man could go one way or the other?

SAI: Yes, one way or the other.  

H: Then what makes the difference? What is the difference in man that he would make one choice or the other?

RB: That is what I want to know, too.  

Realising God Through Love  

SAI: Love is the dominant reason. Compassionate love is pure love, unselfish. In the animal there is love, but it is mixed with lust. But compassion is pure love. Only man has compassion. Through love he may realize the oneness of life, and in this way, by love, he will be one with God.

H: Then, Swami, man can definitely realize God while in the human birth? SAI: Yes. H: But suppose he fails in that, and thus eventually finds himself as a being above the sensory level, what then? SAI: The same holds true. God is love and wherever there is pure love and love only, that is God. Love is everything, but people do not understand love. Their understanding is confused. For example: There is a child. Mother and father love the child with pure love. The child is kissed and fondled and showered with affection. This is the action of pure love. In this action there is no lust; there is no lust in that love. Another example: A father is 40 years old. There is the wife and the daughter who is 18 years of age. The love of the father for his family leads him to kiss his daughter. In this action of love, there is no lust. It is pure love, compassion. The husband also kisses his wife, and in this kiss there is some mixture of lust. In both cases, the kiss was the action of love, but the love was different.

H: Swami, that is a wonderful explanation. The difference is very clear, and very important to understand.

SAI: Pure love, Divine love is everything.

RB: How do human beings realize and become that divine, pure compassionate !ove?

SAI: It will come with sadhana. There is a big mistake in the consideration of meditation as the principal sadhana. What is meditation? Meditation controls the mind. It is mental. The genuine sadhana is that pure love which is not different from the Divine.

Seeing the Good in All  

H: In America , when they hear of Sai, some people declare that he is the Anti-Christ.

SAI: Some individual ideas of some people. Goldstein has individual ideas. Hislop has individual ideas. I know what is not good, and I know what is good. All my ideas and actions are based on what is good for the world. I am pure, I have no worries, I have no anxieties, I am happy always, I have no anger. I want nothing, take nothing, do nothing for myself. All I think, all I do at all times is for the good of the world.

H: We could also have the same ideas by doing as Swami does.

SAI: Yes, to follow Swami is the important thing. To follow this example is best.

RB: I am trying to follow Swami's instructions.

SAI: Trying? Trying is no good. Do it! Do it!  

H: We can ask Swami for strength!

SAI: I will give strength! Sometimes there is wavering of faith in Sai. Thoughts arise, "Why does Sai do this? Why does He do that?" Peter was near and dear to Christ. But he denied Christ.

H: Did he deny Christ because of fear for the safety of his body? Because of feeling that he was the body?

SAI: Yes. It was because of body identification. Judas was also near and dear. He was a good devotee. Jesus did not divide the disciples into good and bad.

H: I pray that my faith in Sai will not waver.

SAI: The important thing is to do good and be good. Do not see the bad. See only the good.

Swami’s Work Never Ends (Conversation while in a car)

SAI: This land (on our left beside the University) was bought today. H: Today! How far does it go? SAI: All of it, 28 acres. Cost is a lakh of rupees per acre. H: That is expensive. The new buildings have raised the price. SAI: Some owners are asking 3 lakhs per acre. Some years ago, the land was 100 rupees per acre. H: Will more buildings go up on this new land? SAI: Yes. More buildings. Laboratory, library, and housing for instructors and their families H: This year, with the new University and the teachers' training plan for instruction in human values throughout the entire school system of India, I can see that Sai is getting hold of India.

SAI: Amongst the spiritual leaders of India there is some jealousy.  

H: But they do not have public works. Only Swami is doing that.

SAI: Sai Baba is working for the public twenty-four hours a day. Even the interviews are public work. Twenty-four hours per day, 365 days per year. Not even one holiday.

H: But that is beyond man. It is possible only for the Divine.

(To be continued...)

– Heart2Heart Team