CONVERSATIONS WITH SAI

Satyopanishad - part 15:
Direct Directions from the Divine

Dear Reader,

In response to your positive feedback to this section where we have a conversation with the Divine, we continue with Prof. Anil Kumar’s ‘Satyopanishad’ following Dr. John Hislop’s series ‘Conversations with Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba’ that ended in January 2008.

This series is also in the question-answer format that many devotees prefer, and has answers from Bhagavan on topics as wide ranging as the origin of evil, the goals of human lif, and aspects of God – embodied and formless, to price hikes, women’s liberation, vegetarianism, and the generation gap among people of the present times.

Published in two parts by the author, these volumes have 270 questions in all, which are neatly grouped under separate chapters. In this issue, we begin the fifth chapter: 'Concepts'

Chapter 5: Concepts

(Continued from the previous issue)

Prof. Anil Kumar: Swami! We hear about pancha koshas, the five sheaths, the pancha pranas, the five vital airs, and panchendriyas, the five organs. Do they cover our spirit, atma? Are they obstacles to atmic bliss? What exactly is their position and role in our body?

Bhagavan: The whole world is made of five elements: Earth, fire, water, air and space. Man is the product of these five elements, besides his temperament. Raga or attachment, dvesa or hatred, and bhaya or fear, originate in akasa, space. Our breathing process, movements like walking or other body movements are due to vayu, wind.

Hunger, thirst and sleep are the effects of agni, fire. Phlegm, blood, bile, urine, etc., are the outcome of jala, water. Skin, muscles, bones, nails, hairs, nerves are of prthvi, matter. Therefore, all the five elements are equally distributed in everyone. No one can truly be considered superior to any other.

The human body has five sheaths, the Pancha koshas. The first one is annamaya kosha, the sheath of food, the second is pranamaya kosha, the sheath of life, and the third is manomaya kosha, the sheath of mind. The fourth is vigyanamaya kosha, the sheath of knowledge and finally anandamaya kosha, the sheath of bliss.

One sheath encloses the other. You know rice grains are enclosed within husks. Therefore, a rice grain is within the sheath of husk. For the tamarind seed, tamarind pulp is the sheath. An embryo is within the sheath of its mother's womb.

Annamaya kosha is a sheath which covers pranamaya kosha. This encloses manomaya kosha, the sheath of the mind. This covers vigyanamaya kosa, sheath of wisdom, which finally encloses anandamaya kosa, the sheath of bliss.

Annamaya kosha is the product of food. The body is annamaya kosha. You have all the behavioural tendencies that result from the food you eat. Then, you have pranamaya kosha composed of the five organs of action (the karmendriyas), and five life breaths, pancha pranas (prana, apana, vyana, udana, samana).

Then comes manomaya kosha, the mental sheath consisting of five organs of perception (jnanendriyas), and the mind, which is full of thoughts and counter-thoughts. The fourth is vigyanamaya kosha, the sheath of knowledge, of sound, touch, form, taste and smell, which constitutes the buddhi, intellect.

Everyone has an equal right to know and experience the atma, self. To attain such an awareness, self-enquiry is very necessary. However, an intense and deep desire is essential to know and experience atma.

The innermost sheath is anandamaya kosa (sheath of bliss). In order to enable yourself to experience this state of bliss, you will have to practice all that you theoretically know and do what you are supposed to. Likewise, you should understand the principle of samatva, equality, and ekatva, unity, and experience daivatva, divinity. This leads you to a state when you will not hate anyone.

Everyone has an equal right to know and experience the atma, self. To attain such an awareness, self-enquiry is very necessary. However, an intense and deep desire is essential to know and experience atma. Just like a seed within a fruit, as a copper wire within a plastic covering, butter in milk, sugar in the sugarcane, oil within sesame seeds and fire in wood, atma is encased within pancakosas, pancendriyas and pancapranas (five life sheaths, five sense organs and five life principles).

Prof. Anil Kumar: Swami! We come across words like manas (mind), buddhi (intellect), citta (consciousness), and ahamkara (egoism). How are we to understand and correlate them? How do they differ from one another? It is our good fortune that Swami explains in simple ways, terms ever so complex.

Bhagavan: Here is an illustration. Consider a Brahmin. When he conducts ceremonies like weddings, you call him purohit, priest; when he reads out from the almanac at your home the tithi, lunar phase, the varam day of the week, naksatra, star, etc. you call him the pancanga Brahmin; when he prepares food in your home, you call him the brahmin cook.

Another illustration. Your wife addresses you in Telugu as emandi, (Oh, you! Please, Sir!) because addressing the husband by name is not considered proper. Your child calls you 'Father' and your student addresses you as 'Sir'. But, you are, after all, only one individual, aren't you!

One and the same faculty has different names: manas or mind when engaged in thinking; chitta or awareness in a state of equanimity devoid of plans or decisions; buddhi or intellect while exercising discrimination; and ahamkara or egoism when introducing oneself or referring to oneself as 'I'. All these are one, but named differently according to their function.

What is to be controlled is the mind. When you have that nigraham (control), you obtain God's anugraham, grace. Once you consider something as evil, do not allow it to enter the mind. The behaviour of trees and animals is regulated by prakrti, Nature. Only man is disobeying the commands of God and has become depraved. There is only one solution.

What is to be controlled is the mind. When you have that nigraham (control), you obtain God's anugraham, grace. Once you consider something as evil, do not allow it to enter the mind. The behaviour of trees and animals is regulated by prakrti, Nature. Only man is disobeying the commands of God and has become depraved. There is only one solution.

Another little illustration: Tie up kamadhenu, the wish fulfilling cow, of your body with the pasha, rope, of prema, love, to the post called nama, chanting the Name of the Lord. That is enough. You gain control over the mind. Then, on the chitta, awareness, devoid of the turmoil of thoughts, is imprinted the form of God. Buddhi undertakes fundamental discrimination; the 'I' which has been egoistic cognises its own true nature as atma and realises the innermost Self in all beings. This is adhyatmika, spirituality.

Prof. Anil Kumar:Swami! You stress chittasuddhi, purification of our heart, but how is one to accomplish it?

Bhagavan: You are mistaken here. Chitta, heart is always pure. So, where is the need for its suddhi, purification? You only pollute it.

Take for example, this kerchief. This is white in colour. It becomes dirty as I use it. I give it to a washerman to wash and return it. When he brings it, it looks white and bright as before. It was so before and it is so after a wash, but it was dirty in between due to use. The washerman did not paint the kerchief white. He only removed the dirt. So too, like a kerchief, your mind is also pure which becomes impure due to your desires and thoughts. Once you remove the impurities from the mind, it will become pure.

So chittasuddhi means ‘exercising control over desires’.

Prof. Anil Kumar: Swami! Swami! Now it is clear that chittasuddhi is lacking in us due to our bad thoughts and bad deeds. We have certain weaknesses, lapses, bad qualities and thoughts. As you have said unless we get over them, chittasuddhi cannot be attained. The mind gets polluted very often. How is one to control bad qualities?

Bhagavan: It all depends upon your determination and your understanding of the intensity and the gravity of the problem. It needs an honest and sincere attempt on your part.

A small example: You are moving freely without any hesitation and fear in this room. There lies a rope in one corner. But, if you come to know that it is not a rope as you have been thinking it to be, but a snake, would you move freely in that room any longer? You know that it is dangerous to be anywhere near a poisonous snake. You know that you will die if that snake bites you, and so you keep off from that place. Similarly, when you are aware of the danger or harm you will be put to, you will definitely stop your misdeeds

You keep on holding the rope till you know that it is just a rope. But once you realise that it is a snake, you drop it down immediately, because of the fear of death.

So long as you think that these bad thoughts and evil deeds make you happy, you continue to be in the same frame of mind. But, when you know that they are dangerous, you will not hanker after them. Therefore, first of all, you must identify your own bad qualities and then give them up gradually, one after another, until you are perfect.

It is also strange to notice that some seekers undergo rigorous discipline for a set period of time during which they lead a perfect life without any trace of a bad quality. But after that avowed period of discipline they resume their previous bad habits with redoubled vigour.

This is a big mistake. That which holds you for some time is artificial. Here, withdrawal from bad habits is not due to the realisation of the evil effects.

So long as you think that these bad thoughts and evil deeds make you happy, you continue to be in the same frame of mind. But, when you know that they are dangerous, you will not hanker after them. Therefore, first of all, you must identify your own bad qualities and then give them up gradually, one after another, until you are perfect.

Here is an example. You see the ceiling fan rotating there. Now, if you switch it off, it will not stop rotating immediately. The three blades stop moving slowly. Therefore, in full knowledge of the possible harm and the evil effects, you should give up your bad habits slowly.

Prof. Anil Kumar: Swami! Pranayama (breath control), some say, is important on the spiritual path. Would you please tell us about it?

Bhagavan: Pranayama, breath control, has to be undertaken in an exact and perfect way under the care and guidance of a Guru. It leads to danger if it is done imperfectly and irregularly.

There are chiefly three steps in pranayama or breathing exercise. The first one is purakam, inhalation. The second is holding the breath or the air breathed in; this is called kumbhakam, retention. The third stage is exhalation or rechakam.

The important point here is that, the time taken during all these three stages must be equal. It means that the time taken for purakam must be the same as for kumbhakam. Similarly, the duration for kumbhakam must be the equal to the time taken for rechakam.

In the human body there are shadchakras, six life sustaining points on the vertebral column. The lowest is called muladhara chakra, fundamental, primordial life sustaining point at the bottom. In pranayama, during the second step, kumbhakam, (that is, holding the breath), kundalini starts moving upward being restless due to the lack of supply of air across the sadchakras. On the top lies sahasrara chakra (region of the head). There exists a jyoti, divine light, surrounded by dalas, petals.

A living being taking too many breaths per day is short lived. A dog takes many breaths; so, its life span is short. Snakes and mongooses take a few breaths per day; they live long. The breathing exercise has an influence on the life span.

The sahasrara chakra is like a thousand petalled lotus flower. If one has daivi sampatti, divine qualities, the jyoti starts touching the petals. Thus, kundalini affects the human body during this course of sadhana. A living being taking too many breaths per day is short lived. A dog takes many breaths; so, its life span is short. Snakes and mongooses take a few breaths per day; they live long. The breathing exercise has an influence on the life span.

Prof. Anil Kumar:  Swami! It is said that we carry with us certain traits, vasanas of the past life. Is that true and how does it happen?

Bhagavan: Certainly so! Just as in accounts the balance is brought forward from the previous page to the next page, the traits of the previous life are brought forward to the present.

When you light an incense stick or an agarbatti or camphor, don't you get the fragrance all over this room? When you have a fragrant flower, does it not spread its fragrance? Similarly, bad odour or foul smell also spreads. So also, the characteristics of the past lives are brought forward to subsequent lives.

Prof. Anil Kumar: Bhagavan! How is it that we have vasanas, traits of the past life? We are born, we grow and die. The body is bound to weaken, wither, die and decay. How then are our features brought forward to the next life?

Bhagavan: It is certain that the features of the past life are carried to the next life. You can call them vasanas or samskaras or the qualities of the past life. People with good samskaras will spend their time in a sacred way by participating in satsang, good company, bhajan, singing His glory, entertaining good thoughts, good deeds, and good discussion.

...it is true that the body weakens, withers, dies and decays, but the samskaras don't die. They follow you to the next life.

On the other hand, people with bad samskaras make their lifetime unholy by indulging in misdeeds, entertaining bad thoughts and speaking falsehood. As you have said, it is true that the body weakens, withers, dies and decays, but the samskaras don't die. They follow you to the next life.

A simple illustration will make this subject clearer to you. Suppose your hand was injured. You got it treated, and for some time had also put a bandage over the injured part. The hand was healed completely after some time. But in that part of your hand where the injury took place, a scar or a mark is left, and it remains till now as well. Similarly, the body may die. But the vasanas remain as a spot in the next life.

Prof. Anil Kumar: Swami! Three gunas or attributes such as rajas, tamas and sattva (passion and activeness; dullness and inertia, and purity and goodness) are said to bind man. Does a sattvika quality also bind man? Is that also a bondage?

Bhagavan: These three attributes only bind man. Your life is conditioned by them. All your deeds and expressions are governed by them. They monitor your conduct and behaviour. Even sattvika qualities also chain you.

For example, you are confined with an iron chain. Is that not bondage? You may be confined with a silver chain. It is also bondage. It may be now a gold chain. Is it still not bondage? After all, the three chains differ only in the composition of the metal. Each is, ultimately, a chain and nothing more, though its value may differ from that of the other. Thus, the attributes bind or limit you.

Here the iron chain is compared to that of 'tamas', dullnesss or inertia. The silver chain is like the 'rajasika' quality, active, energetic, passionate; and the gold chain is like the 'sattvika' nature, pure, steady and good. But divinity is beyond these three 'gunas'. It is, in fact, attributeless.

(to be continued...)